I wanted to address all of the board posts regarding the expiration emails that were sent last night.
These actions were part of our continued effort to focus on delivering the highest quality buyer traffic to eBay via affiliate marketing. To that end, we’ve been analyzing our program closely over the last few months. I know there have been a number of requests to provide insight into all of the metrics via which we are evaluating affiliate traffic, but unfortunately there’s an active black hat community that is pretty effective at exploiting these insights so we can’t go into details on them. However, what I can say is that in addition to earnings per click metrics (EPC), we look at a variety of metrics to see how users are behaving when they come to eBay.com – how engaged they are with our site, and whether the affiliate link clicks lead to incremental buying activity. As we’ve done this, we have seen a big discrepancy in how interested and active the traffic is that comes to eBay from different sources.
Our responsibility in the affiliate marketing channel is to allocate our resources to best drive incremental demand to our sellers. To that end, we need to focus on partners who have had the most success in engaging users who become some of our best buyers on eBay. I understand that these actions do have a very real impact on some of our affiliates who have been working with us over the years. For that, I sincerely apologize, but these decisions are made in the best interest of eBay's sellers and the overall health of our affiliate program.
We want to be very clear. Affiliates who received these messages of expiration last night are not being asked to stop sending traffic to us due to fraudulent activity or violations of the terms of service. For those of you who received the message, commissions are not being reversed, and you will be paid for all valid traffic you have sent to us to date, and for the next 7 days.
Can you give those of us still here any tips as to how we might continue to drive the type of traffic that eBay looks for? It's hard to decide whether to continue putting effort into our sites if we feel that we may very well be banned from the program at any minute for vague reasons.
Good lord, you can't be serious. How in the world can you determine how "engaged" or "interested" the traffic we send is before it gets to Ebay. Engaging them and keeping them interested is YOUR responsiblity, just as it is with any traffic that makes its way to your site. No affiliate program is going to survive with policies like this.
Come on Steve - Double talk? Garbage, You have told us nothing! What Bar do you gage highest quality traffic as being? As one of those that were left.... WE want to know Why, for what reason did your "think tank" come up with on the fly to expire all these people that did nothing? So your going to change the program every few weeks and we will never know when the axe will hit us, is that what your trying to tell the rest of us, next week we may not care about your $5 Wow, Stable Is What Sellers/Buyers/INVESTERS and EPNers Want, We Want to know where we stand! Before we sink more time into this and work for weeks at a time and USE OUR resourses and then lose every thing next week, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! HA and they can keep aiming traffic at ebay to Boot! You dont need to be working for ebay you need to be a comedian or a white house news guy, Thats just to darn funny!
The Question Was WHY, the rest of us here do NOT want to live in fear of one day waking up to one of your letters! Dont beat around the bush, Come out and tell us!
Steve, I was one of the ones that got the email and how can we control how "engaging" a click is? In most affiliate programs it's the responsibility of the affiliate to pre-sell the item and then for the vendor site to "engage" the customer to close the deal.
We send customers that are interested in an item or else they wouldn't have clicked through. What they do after that is out of our control.
If clicks are a measured are you taking into account bot clicks? I had a new site last night register over 1200 clicks and that would be impossible. I assume epn would take that into consideration, but I know what happens when you assume.
You've expired recent accounts such as mine without even giving me a chance to get the traffic up to par. Quality natural search, which is what I only use, does not happen over night.
You've also expired accounts that have been with ebay for years with a pretty high epc. What is the explanation for those?
What ever happened to working with affiliates? Is it too much to ask for mutual communication and cooperation?
It's time to be a stand up guy. Here's your chance. Communicate the truth, not partial half truths.
Was this a one time purge or should those who did not get the email be in constant fear that they might pick a niche that sends non-engaged traffic and ruin their 20 other niches that does?
If this is an ongoing thing, then it's time to let the sites that made it sit and any new sites developed will need to promote other programs so there is no risk of ruining the ones you have.
Seems to me your going to be losing a lot of potential affilaite marketers and actually drive them to promote other big box affiliate programs that your trying to move towards.
I haven't been "expired" yet, but my morale is shot.
I have good friends who have put their heart and soul into building affiliate sites and have made ebay thousands in only a few months thanks to the traffic they drive.
If making eBay a few thousand dollars a month isn't enough I can't imagine what insane lengths a person would have to go through to make an affiliate program work. What will it come down to? Luck?
eBay holds all the cards. As a devoted hard working affiliate, I petition you to reinstate the accounts that were expired this month and provide us with some sort of system of checks and balances. Give us some kind of warning that one or all of our sites don't meet your standards of customer "engagedness". We work so hard that the least you could do is give us fair warning or request that we cancel campaigns that you deem unworthy.
Until there are some changes, I won't be creating any new campaigns or working with my EPN account at all.
Steve - first and foremost, thank you for addressing the issue. I surely hope the news brief came with a suit of armor... if not, you may still be able to find one on eBay if you hurry! I realize you are just the messenger of this post, but we deserve better.
Several of us have been involved with eBay for many years and in your reply, you show no care or respect for "Partners" in the network.
Running any successful program involves keeping your sales force informed. We are a large part of your sales force Steve. If you have been a team leader in any part of the corporate world, you know it all begins with Goals. Realistic and MEASURABLE goals.
What you have just told us is that there are a few rogue affiliates out there doing bad things. Because of those bad people, you are not going to tell the rest of us, the majority, what THEY need to do in order to succeed with this affiliate program.
Communication has completely broken down and until there is a transparent and measurable set of goals, we are all going to feel we are playing Russian Roulette.
Was this a one time purge or should those who did not get the email be in constant fear that they might pick a niche that sends non-engaged traffic and ruin their 20 other niches that does?
That's exactly what I've been thinking about. Been scrutinizing the numbers on my lower performing sites today and wondering if I should do anything.
For me, moving forward, this does put an anchor on the creativity side.
When I buy into a Vehicle I want to know that its going to start for me every morning, When I buy in to a program like this, and sink My hard earned time and money in to it, I want to know its going to be there for me in the morning! Something needs to be set in Stone as to Policies and WHAT YOU WANT FROM US.
If Tims going to give you a ride home you can both clean your desk out....
I've already shut down 20+ sites that had tremendous potential, just weren't performing great yet. The whole thing is kind of silly, we have no idea what you want from us unless you tell us.
Wow... I am stunned. I was dropped in the first round with no warning email, then reinstated with an apology from customer service (I use that term loosely) I did not get dropped in the latest round (my EPC is over $20 if that means anything) but I am sure to scale back my efforts and warn everyone around me to steer clear of EPN due to the lack of respect that has been shown to affiliates.
Steve, can you honestly say that with all the hiccups in the past few months with tracking, charging affiliates for charity auctions and other issues that the company you work for has any confidence that they know if traffic is engaged?
Affiliates enjoy building RESIDUAL streams of income. They put forth the hard work in the beginning, monitor and keep up the sites, and enjoy the LONG TERM benefits.
In the beginning of your post you state that you won't tell us why because of black hat techniques, but at the end of your post you state they the people being kicked out are not being punished for TOS violation or Fraud. Kinda a mixed message don't you think?
As with any affiliate program there is the 80/20 rule in effect. 20% of the affiliates generate 80% of the revenue. NEVER in the 10 years I have been in affiliate marketing have I seen an affiliate program axe this many high performing affiliates. It makes no sense. If the people are not violating the TOS or committing fraud, what is wrong with traffic that is not engaged? Is it throwing off your internal metrix for share holders? I am sure it's not a bandwidth issue, so what is it?
I've heard directly from some of my websites visitors that they use my eBay search page all the time! I have a series of helpful searches that narrow down the results and give them specifically what they are looking for. SEVERAL people in my target hobby use my site for this purpose and have thanked me for the service I provide. I guess that is all worthless now, they will miss this service after Aug 27 when I delete it. Sadly, I was not able to meet an invisible, unknown metric until it was too late, and now that I'm banned, I will never have a chance to try again.. not even with entirely new websites with new topics.... what a shame. If I had at least known I was in danger, I could have attempted to fix the problem.
Was this a one time purge or should those who did not get the email be in constant fear that they might pick a niche that sends non-engaged traffic and ruin their 20 other niches that does?
No offense but you'd be a fool if you think this is a one time thing. Whatever metrics/algorithm they have in place will catch more affiliates next week or next month once your so called metrics dip below whatever threshold they've set.
This is not a partner network because I would treat a partner with respect and decency. I would not terminate anyone based on what some metrics (most likely machine spitting out data) is telling me without investigating first.
I created my sites with ethics and honesty. My traffic was gathered the same way. I always held that those qualities would prevail but in the corporate machine that ebay has become I may have sadly been mistaken.
Truly sad as epn could have been the best affiliate program there is. How many of you can continue with the fear of opening your emails?
I logged into the EPN back office and went to Help/Legal Agreements. I then performed a search for the word "traffic" on the "Network Agreement" and "eBay Partner Network Code of Conduct".
The word "traffic" appears only 1 time and that is in the "Code of Conduct" agreement regarding intercepting or redirecting traffic. I then went through the "user manual" and found nothing.
Also, the email states "as compared to the standards set by our other affiliates" Where in the user agreement does it state that we are to be compared to other affiliates?
Sounds like there are some serious ASSUMPTIONS being made right now on behalf of those brainiacs at EPN. I have honestly never heard of an affiliate program acting in such a way. The most unprofessional and inconsiderate group of people I've ever laid eyes on or had the unfortunate experience to work with. ASSUMPTIONS from a few metrics that haven't had enough time to possibly prove themselves. Sounds like to me you are measuring them up to those that are using black hat techniques. How could you possibly be getting poor visitors from those utilizing white hat SEO and PPC. So flawed and so disgusting.
Coming from a person who was about to go into business for himself based on eBay being about 50% of his affiliate revenue. Not to mention countless dollars spent promoting, developing, and doing white hat methods to be a good affiliate. I suppose we all learned a lesson here.
Steve said in his post..... Our responsibility in the affiliate marketing channel is to allocate our resources to best drive incremental demand to our sellers.
Then why does eBay try to drive traffic off the eBay site with Banner Ads at the top and side of most search results pages to advertisers like "T-Mobile", Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Monster, Weight Watchers, Vonage just to name a few.
Doesn't seem like eBay is trying to promote their sellers products.
What about Sponsored Links Sponsored Links are provided by Yahoo! Search Marketing, which generates sponsored search results by allowing advertisers to bid for placement order based on specific search keywords. Matches are based upon relevance to the specific search terms used in your query.
These ads are at the bottom of pages we send hard earned traffic to.
Then eBay wants to blame the affiliate for not sending quality traffic.
There you have it - eBay showed its true nature. Your typical evil corporation that cares nothing about its constituents.
I suppose my one year of 30+ hours per week of hard work writing content and optimizing my site for 100% pure organic search traffic hasn't paid off a bit. The drilled-down traffic and constantly improved results that my sites have received were all in vain, as eBay (or as they like to think of themselves, jesus christ) deemed to be worthless and non-quality. The measly 0.05% return on the total profits that eBay made off of my efforts were a drop in the bucket, after all.
Nice to be compared to black hatters - too. I've been in web development for 10 years and search engine optimization for 4 years, and have been a hardcore white hatter every inch of the way, but it sure feels good to be stereotyped due to a faulty algorithm and prompt quick fix by your company. Not an endearing quality, ebay.
Your "responsibility" is to make EPN a valuable experience for yourselves and your affiliates. However, you've removed the latter and replaced it with typical public relations speech and still refuse to address each individual account. I hope the guilt of all of the people whose lives are ruined weighs on all of you who have contributed to making this happen. It's all collateral damage though, isn't that right?
My post isn't intended for the "damage control" mouthpiece, but for the bastards who have chosen to wrongly lump together outstanding affiliates in the EPN community who have consistently followed the rules in your TOS, and have probably even endorsed them on the marketing forums throughout the internet (DigitalPoint, BANS, etc) in complete vain, as they have had no warning, no "fix it" email, no nothing - but a complete ban and a lifelong hatred for your company.
I truly hope the wave of negative publicity that is about to hit eBay will cripple the company and only serve as a huge advantage for your competitors.
Also, my commissions better damn be paid, or I surely will have my lawyer involved.
My sister works for a lawyer and she said that although a vendor can terminate a contract without notice, once a reason is given that reason needs to have been in writing previously.
So yes, they may have the less engaging clause but if they are terminating us based on metrics, those metrics need to be stated in writing.
Steve said in his post..... Our responsibility in the affiliate marketing channel
Well, not fair to blame the ads on Steve. I'm sure he has absolutely no control over them as head of the ePN. His job is indeed to "allocate our resources to best drive incremental demand to our sellers", with the term our meaning ePN resources.
There are other angles to take against ePN certainly, but this isn't a legitimate one in my opinion.
For those that survived this round, this is not looking good for the new ACRU scores. If this is the way they work things, I bet most ACRUS will be 1 and 10 bucks.
I was looking forward to making 50, but now all new sites I build will be targeting other affiliate programs. Sites currently running will run until eBay decides they are not engaging enough, then they will be flipped to send traffic to an affiliate program that actually appreciates it.
No way I'm going to spend time promoting a program that treats partners like this and drops you giving you some vague excuse.
best drive incremental demand to our sellers is that why your going to put ads in my listings, pointing the people I brought into my auctions in other places, That I paid for....
...are not being asked to stop sending traffic to us due to fraudulent activity or violations of the terms of service... Then Why did you expire them!
The Bible says that a Double Minded person is Unstable in ALL their ways. And you can take that to the bank!
Know what I like Steve? The fact that many names I see, as having had their throats cut by ePN, were ePN's most ardent supporters. The fools would try to crush anyone on this forum that even questioned ePN's business philosophy toward affiliates. Now ePN gives them the axe. So much for the idiots who thought they would all be getting $50 ACRU's because they were so good at what they do and eBay is an all-knowing and generous God. Some of us were wise enough to begin diversifying months ago.
The lemmings went to the cliffs.
Do your superiors really think this move is going to be a long-term solution to a plummeting corporate value? Thanks for renewing my faith in the greed of corporations, who care nothing of their "associates."
"...and warn everyone around me to steer clear of EPN due to the lack of respect that has been shown to affiliates."
Cause & Effect: Months from now ePN will have a terrible reputation that may take years to reverse.
Over the past couple of weeks, posts warning people to NOT waste their time with ePN are already showing up on hundreds of well-read blogs and message boards throughout the online affiliate marketing world.
Axiomatic Truth: When EVERYONE thinks your wrong, you are.
Steve said in his post..... Our responsibility in the affiliate marketing channel
Well, not fair to blame the ads on Steve. I'm sure he has absolutely no control over them as head of the ePN. His job is indeed to "allocate our resources to best drive incremental demand to our sellers", with the term our meaning ePN resources.
There are other angles to take against ePN certainly, but this isn't a legitimate one in my opinion.
I'm not blaming Steve I'm blaming eBay.
Coin... Don't forget you could be next. Why don't you try to help us here!
Coin: its not even the outside ads Im talking about, in the new beta pages when you view auctions its going to show other sellers down the side that says you may also like, and that directly takes food out of my mouth!
The person came into an auction I POSTED, and I PAID FOR, to only be directed at another sellers item, tell me thats not STUPID
and if you think about it with even the out side ads, eBay has turned in to a BANS site it self! they draw traffic only to have you click on an affiliate! they them self are a low quality traffic site now.
Coinaf13 thinks butt kissing has worked so well, thus far, why ruin a good business plan.
The axe isn't done. Still plenty of a cutting edge left. He'll probably get the chop in the next round. He's making enough money, so he says, to be on their radar for improving their bottom line.
I'm not blaming Steve I'm blaming eBay I am, if its a team up there like they say it is, he is part of the problem also!
Steve: your not doing your job, that just added bad juju you were to stop this NOT MAKE IT WORSEWere you not thinking about the firestorm that post would have caused?
I'm well aware. Didn't you see where I said I've already axed 20 new sites for fear of non-performance?
But that shouldn't need to be the case. We should try new avenues and new ventures. You never know what might work, if you don't try.
Many of the folks were no under-performers. I don't feel I was. I had one site that was pulling in XXXX a month steady. Now that's gone. That's just one site.
Steve clearly states that it wasn't fraud ( I knew that already, I've been playing by the rules ), but that we've been let go due to some mysterious figures that we're not allowed to know. So we don't know if we're doing well or not????
Probably the folks that were let go where the ones that didn't bring in many new members, had folks that ebay felt "would have bought that item regardless of the affiliate", and therefore let those affiliates go.
I mean, if I was in this business, I'd probably think that way too.
The thing is, my site wasn't like that. We found old/rare/mis-labeled items that would have sold for $10, but due to us finding it and promoting it, sold for much much more. It's a win / win place in my eyes.
I hope to dispute it, and have someone look at it, as I do like ebay, and I understand business is business, but as long as the fair shake goes both ways, I'll still be there. If not, then I'll just find a new avenue I suppose, and the planned expansions into other areas will go forward but in other areas.
I do feel this will hurt ebay in the long run as folks left behind will diversify more and instead of pursuing more ebay, they'll look elsewhere, and I know I would if I wasn't removed.
Well here is something else to tkink about, As a PowerSeller now there are less people driving traffic to ebay (my auctions) I guess I also have to take a dip in income becasue if the ammount of people are not there to bid on my items, I will tank, its bad now!
Just wanted to follow up on Pixelrage's earlier post:
Nice to be compared to black hatters - too. I've been in web development for 10 years and search engine optimization for 4 years, and have been a hardcore white hatter every inch of the way, but it sure feels good to be stereotyped due to a faulty algorithm and prompt quick fix by your company. Not an endearing quality, ebay.
I was really trying to be clear in my original post that we're in no way comparing folks who were expired to black hatters. I know there are a lot of white hat folks who have been working hard on building businesses who were affected by this, and while this is probably of little consolation, please know that the decisions were not made lightly.
For the folks on this thread who remain in the program who are concerned about their status or innovating with their affiliate sites, I want to reiterate that we're looking for you to drive users to eBay who are going to be engaged with the eBay site and who are making incremental purchases based on your affiliate marketing efforts. We're going to continue to innovate on our side to try to bring you the best platform and tools possible to generate affiliate revenue and hope that you continue to innovate on your side as well with your efforts.
I think this was an amazingly shortsighted and foolish decision by eBay.
They obviously spent a TON of money to get the EPN up and running. Then, with one fell swoop, they obliterated its reputation, by terminating people that were following the rules and operating in good faith.
Two days ago, I sent an email to a friend, suggesting that he try EPN. I mentioned that I was seeing great response from the program from a small section of my website, and was going to try and figure out how to integrate EPN to pages of mine that get significantly more traffic.
I will not expend that effort now. The reward is just not worth the risk because at any time I could be randomly terminated. And I'm not going to tell my friend to risk it with EPN now. Too risky.
In fact, I would be foolish to change one single thing on my website. Why? Because I *wasn't* terminated, and I make some good money. If I try something different, I might cross their invisible line and lose it all. So I'm not going to move a muscle.
That's called institutional paralysis, and eBay has just created it.
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