I would have made a citizen's arrest on the transport police officer. He is clearly a terrorist because I couldn't understand a word he said.

I couldn't finish watching it because I was growing too angry and frustrated. - My pessimistic side thinks the world is changing for the worse, and there's no way to fix it all. My optimistic side is apparently hibernating, because it cant think of a damn positive thing to say.

Given that this was, by the looks of it, at a train station, random stop and search is probably a better approach than profiling. Also, can you imaging pulling a video camera on the TSA? Your feet wouldn't touch the ground!
Okay, it's largely security theatre - I say largely because our policy of being so far up Bush's *rs* that only our bootlaces are left hanging out has increased the risk, as we've seen on at least 3 occasions - but at least it's _polite_ security theatre.

God save the queen
The fascist regime
They made you a moron
Potential H-bomb

God save the queen
She ain't no human being
There is no future
In England's dreaming

Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
There's no future, no future,
No future for you

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
'Cause tourists are money
And our figurehead
Is not what she seems

Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh Lord God have mercy
All crimes are paid

When there's no future
How can there be sin
We're the flowers in the dustbin
We're the poison in your human machine
We're the future, your future

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
We mean it man
And there is no future
In England's dreaming

No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future,
No future for me

No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future
For you

So the first guy seems reasonable, polite and informative. Then in comes Nick Frost's unpleasant cousin to put a bit of stick about and play up every cliche of the thuggish enforcer of meaningless, pointless security theater.

Decent Cop/Thug Cop, that's a new spin on an old game.

Does anyone really believe this makes the UK even one iota safer for anyone?

He does have long and beautiful hair.

So is the outrage here that they are doing searches for terrorists, or that they aren't properly profiling them in the interests of appearing egalitarian?

i like that he carries an entire box of kleenex with him :)

wellll.... the first one has an "H" on his forehead under the helmet. The second? Born torturer.

Can't live free in England, the US is on the way to being China, if Canada is smart they'll hang their current comic opera dictator and start selling passports. Any chance of someone shooting Sarkozy?

Long live us
the persuaded we
integral
collectively
to the whole project it's brand new
conceived solely to protect you.

Everyone has
their own number
in the system that
we operate under
We're moving to
a situation
where your lives exist
as information

If you've done nothing wrong
you've got nothing to fear
If you've something to hide
you shouldn't even be here
You've had your chance
now we've got the mandate
If you've changed your mind
I'm afraid it's too late

We're concerned
you're a threat
You're not integral
to the project

Sterile.
Immaculate.
Rational.
Perfect.

Welcome to New York City - at least (for now) you can refuse the search but exit the subway station.

I work in London and this depresses me immensely. Whilst this bullshit 20 minutes was going on, several people were being stabbed, mugged , whatever,and these two policemen were reading someones books and looking at their credit cards (after stopping them for no reason under the *terrorism* act)

In the U.S. you'd have been tasered first. God help you if they ever saw the camera.

Wow, Sex Pistols and Pet Shop Boys in the same thread; hope springs eternal! Well...until the BPI sues BB for breach of copyright.

p.s I have sent a brief note about this to Boris Johnson. Perhaps if enough people did, someone in his office might take a look at it. As I said, imagine the queues at Gatwick airport if all the security inspections were this long. If you can go through security to get on a *plane* in 30 seconds (ignoring the queuing,and even a bag search in 2 minutes), why 20 minutes at a train station when you are *leaving* the train station?

Section 44 of the Terrorism Act of 2000;

44 Authorisations

(1) An authorisation under this subsection authorises any constable in uniform to stop a vehicle in an area or at a place specified in the authorisation and to search—

(a) the vehicle;

(b) the driver of the vehicle;

(c) a passenger in the vehicle;

(d) anything in or on the vehicle or carried by the driver or a passenger.

(2) An authorisation under this subsection authorises any constable in uniform to stop a pedestrian in an area or at a place specified in the authorisation and to search—

(a) the pedestrian;

(b) anything carried by him.

(3) An authorisation under subsection (1) or (2) may be given only if the person giving it considers it expedient for the prevention of acts of terrorism.

(4) An authorisation may be given—

(a) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of a police area outside Northern Ireland other than one mentioned in paragraph (b) or (c), by a police officer for the area who is of at least the rank of assistant chief constable;

(b) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of the metropolitan police district, by a police officer for the district who is of at least the rank of commander of the metropolitan police;

(c) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of the City of London, by a police officer for the City who is of at least the rank of commander in the City of London police force;

(d) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of Northern Ireland, by a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary who is of at least the rank of assistant chief constable.

(5) If an authorisation is given orally, the person giving it shall confirm it in writing as soon as is reasonably practicable.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts2000/ukpga_20000011_en_5

Sorry to say that this is not too different from what I've seen done in Gare du Nord, Paris almost ten years ago: At that time, one day in July 1999, a huge swathe of policement descended on the station, asking everybody to please identify themselves (meaning, showing ID cards) and dragging off everybody who couldn't.

The catch? They weren't exactly descending on *everybody*, mainly on everybody looking foreign - especially, of course, on everybody looking foreign in a dark sort of way. A Dutch-looking woman abused some of them and called them "fascists", extracting a convoluted threat concerning what might happen if they were to drag her off "behind".

This would have been an anti-immigration routine, but I'm sure at least some legal inhabitants of African or Arab descent who forgot their ridiculous piece of paper must have had a really lousy day trying to prove that.

Later, French friends of mine confirmed, that this kind of thing was completely routine. Point being, that even though the "war on terror" has made things a lot worse, the European police state didn't start with that. It probably started with the wars on immigration and drugs.

@ MGFARREL: the "decent cop" may be personable, but he's just a pig with good manners. They're all criminals, villains, and swine. There is no such thing as a decent cop, because no decent person would ever wish to be one.

Inflammable material is planted in my head
It's a suspect device that's left 2000 dead
Their solutions are our problems
They put up the wall
On each side time and prime us
And make sure we get f-ck all
They play their games of power
They mark and cut the pack
They deal us to the bottom
But what do they put back?

[Chorus:]
Don't believe them
Don't believe them
Don't be bitten twice
You gotta suss, suss, suss, suss, suss out
Suss suspect device

They take away our freedom
In the name of liberty
Why don't they all just clear off
Why won't they let us be
They make us feel indebted
For saving us from hell
And then they put us through it
It's time the bastards fell

[Chorus]

Don't believe them
Don't believe them
Question everything you're told
Just take a look around you
At the bitterness and spite
Why can't we take over and try to put it right

[Chorus]

We're a suspect device if we do what we're told
But a suspect device can score an own goal
I'm a suspect device the Army can't defuse
You're a suspect device they know they can't refuse
We're gonna blow up in their face

Troubling times we live in. We have our own terrorist problems in the US. We call those loathsome bastards the TSA.

Brave guy for filming it. Kudos for that. I thought he wouldn't be allowed.

Souvellience in action & needed more than ever.

It's not that are generation is apathetic. This stuff annoys so many people, but we seem to have convinced are selfs nothing can be done.

It wasn't too long ago London's subway was bombed and its likely it will happen again as its the easiest way to do the most damage and disruption.
Nobody complains about search's at airports, why cry when it happens at a train station?
"but im white!, why you search me, boohoo"
The police are bastards, we know this..but they are damned if the don't, damned if they do.

Just don't carry anything embarrassing in your bag when in london.

Eh. At least the guy was reasonably professional. He also dealt with the camera properly by basically ignoring it (though I'd argue that his thoroughness is probably because he's being recorded).

There is no such thing as a decent cop, because no decent person would ever wish to be one.

That's an immensely ignorant view of not only police officers but of the world itself.

Setting up an adversarial relationship with entire swathes of the population based on supposition and broadly drawn conclusions? Isn't that exactly what offends you about bad cops in the first place?

That got my blood-a-boilin'.

I don't see why the individual police officers should be criticised here. They do their jobs honestly, don't aggravate the situation and don't attempt to exert any more power than is either legal or necessary, given the (quite possibly stupid) policy that they have been instructed to implement.

Hopefully they don't have any dishonest police with really good memorizing skills. He looked at those credit cards long enough.

The British has S.44. The US has a similar law
Public Law 107-56 initially signed into effect on Oct. 26, 2001.

No difference.

#18 "It wasn't too long ago London's subway was bombed"

Nor was it so long ago that an innocent man was killed on the subway by police over zealously doing their job in a complete thoughtless panic.

This situation feels like an early precursor to the police state seen in V for Vendetta.

Gosh, he did seem rather charming and did seem well-trained. I've had some real assholes tear through my stuff, especially in Amsterdam. I just look the other way and let them feel important for a few minutes. It's all they have. Really, if it's a true violation and you don't want to put up with it, fine. Otherwise just be polite and do as the nice robot says. You must do as the collective says.

They are robots,
doing a job.
We like robots
They are robots,
just doing their job...

Yeah the problem here isn't the policemen, it's the legislation and culture we are slipping into.

I don't see why the individual police officers should be criticised here. They do their jobs honestly, don't aggravate the situation and don't attempt to exert any more power than is either legal or necessary, given the (quite possibly stupid) policy that they have been instructed to implement.

In another thread that wasn't flirting so coyly with Godwin, this would be called "The Nuremberg Defense."

#18 Loci

Nobody complains about search's at airports, why cry when it happens at a train station? "but im white!, why you search me, boohoo"

Huh? If you've ever read BB, and you have, you'll notice an awful lot of people complaining about airport searches.
And I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain they were being searched because they are white. What a complete and utter horseshit strawman that is.

Just don't carry anything embarrassing in your bag when in london.

How is that even remotely an acceptable answer to what amounts to unreasonable invasion of privacy? Seriously, way to troll a completely reasonable post, Loci.

Ok, so they check his credit cards to see if they are his... well done they're fairly easy to get.

But I didn't see them going through his phone to check for any maps, schematics, floorplans etc... which they seemed so intent on searching for, even a cursory check in the images folder yet alone a decent check connected to a PC as a mass storage device, even then we all know how hard it is to hide files within a file system or a hidden partition (yes even on phones).

The only terrorists they will be catching are the ones with no common sense.

Matt Joyce: "Terrorist problems" are no kind of excuse for this crap.

Imagine a situation in the US where bombs are regularly being detonated in cars and litter bins without warning; where bombs are being left in shops and bars to go off without warning; where army barracks are targeted and soldiers and police are shot dead in the street on a weekly basis; where truck-loads of high explosive are detonated in major cities; where leading politicians are full-time targets for assassination attempts and several lose their lives as a consequence.

That was Britain in the 1970s and 1980s courtesy of the IRA. In 1984 Margaret Thatcher's entire Cabinet was nearly wiped out in the Brighton hotel bombing; in 1991 John Major's Cabinet was attacked by mortars fired from a van at Downing Street. At no time did anyone suggest we needed the kind of harassing behaviour towards travellers, photographers or anyone else that's becoming routine today. That would have been regarded as "giving in to the terrorists". None of these measures would have stopped the IRA doing what they did with such deadly efficiency. So if we didn't need this then, why do we need it now?

In another thread that wasn't flirting so coyly with Godwin, this would be called "The Nuremberg Defense."

In the post the other day the former Seattle Chief of Police made a fine point about who was to blame for the drug war. The answer is, us.

People demand that the government "DO SOMETHING" and off the system goes, grinding away. The reality is, this tactic wouldn't stop a suicide bomber, it would give them a reason to detonate their device. So cops become actors in security pantomime while politician assure use they are "taking it seriously"

Until we stop demanding to be protected at the expense of our rights and liberties this nonsense will continue on and on.

At least he got a receipt.

I can only imagine if they did this with as travel weary family. Kids desperate to go to the bathroom, babies crying, trying to explain the "mystery liquid" is breast milk and how it must be saved and not be dumped out.

When this stars happening in the US it will be really difficult to want to be a citizen here anymore...

Didn't we have a war with them over this kinda thing? or was it taxes?

Some days you fight the facists, some days you ARE the facists.

At least the UK never really promised anybody liberty, freedom or justice. Those were just happy consequences of peace and order.

And now they're gone.

There's something almost cathartic about seeing something in a public forum that we've all experienced. Imagine if every one of these types of searches that occur every day was shown on an enormous wall of screens. Hey, maybe that should be someone's next art project.

Comment on #31

This was not the case for me. After living in Northern Ireland for 30 years I've been through countless random checks, both in N.Ireland and the mainland UK. Most were polite and good humoured about the whole procedure but the point will have to be that at no point was I given any reason why I was being searched and asked my travel plans.

I'm tired today, I think thats why I'm commenting here. And today it astounds me that though culturally we may share the same shorthand that lends to reading the comments on a website like boing boing; how radically different our experiences and understandings of freedom are.

Tumble, very good perspective shot.

Kinda makes me want to travel to London, and I will bring nothing except for a large bag of crusty dildos. :D

Hello,

I'm the chap with the long, beautiful hair who made this video.

I don't think we should shout "Fascist" at every little thing that pisses us off. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't remain alert to those who wish to subvert our society's freedoms.

I made this video because I think it's really important that people see a full unedited account of this kind of daily occurrence. Raising awareness about the state of our society is much more effective than me shouting abuse at the police officers who are enforcing these laws.

More details on the whole affair (including others' reactions) are on my blog.

Thanks for featuring my story.

T
PS I have a cold - that's why I have a full box of Kleenex!

Tumble: I should have been more specific and said in England, not NI where the situation was obviously very different. The other proviso is if you were a Black Briton when you were (and probably still are) more likely to be stopped and searched.

But I've been travelling to London nearly every year since 1974, hitch-hiked around the country a lot in the past; from my experience this persistent, petty harassment--of photographers especially--is something new that wasn't there before.

Ulp.....Gag

V for Vendetta was a horrible movie. It was like flipping through a bad comic book or something.

I was stopped under the same act for looking twice before crossing the road. There were some cops in a car near where I was crossing the road, and they said me looking twice before crossing was actually me doing a double-take, and me crossing the road was not in fact me crossing the road, but me trying to get away from them.

I asked if their mums had taught them to look twice before crossing the road, but apparently not. The took my name, address and went through my bag, specifically because I was being suspicious (according to them).

To be fair, every other interaction i've had with a London cop was absolutely fine. They'd come quickly when I called, were polite and sympathetic, and that was that.

Could someone provide a transcript of this thing? Between the abysmal sound quality, the background noise, and Officer Friendly's accent, I'm having some serious trouble figuring out what is being said.

I always find it funny when crowds behave irrationally and then complain for it.

1) Wikipedia notes, for the 2001 general election: "The elections were also marked by voter apathy, with turnout falling to 59%, the lowest since the Coupon Election of 1918." Result: New Labour wins with 10m voters.

2) 9/11 occurs, MPs vote the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act of 2001 despite partial incompatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights. What does the British do? Riot? Nah. Brits don't trust Europe anyway, they want to do terrible things in Brussels, like get rid of the pound.

3) Oh, there is an election in 2005, let's make counter-terrorism a huge media thing and force the issue into the campaign, by which token competing parties will feel pressured to make electoral offers that will downward-harmonize legislation. Or not.

4) Now policemen are trashing the bags of people who do not vote or protest in normal times. No, the policemen have to come to YOUR bag and trash YOUR stuff, in which case you MIGHT feel outraged enough to do something heroic: film it and gather Internet protest (which are appalling by the way: check the video answers on phreadz: "this is unbelievable, i don't know what to say, gobsmacked," whoa, amazing feedback, you long-term analysis is astonishing).

Policemen (civil servants) are unaccountable, but politicians are, and so should be voters and citizens. You don't vote, you get shit leaders who give you shit legislation, you still don't protest, you get into mild trouble with a bobby, and suddenly democracy is at risk. O the irony.

(And yes I am aware some people did protest.)

So it was just me that thought the guy being stopped and searched sounded like Dom Jolly, and was expecting a squadron of men in giant panda costumes to run in and kung-fu the coppers at any moment, then??

Feet-Wet Heathrow 10-09-08.

Can't come soon enough.

Feets, get me OUT OF HERE....

"I'm just doing my job sir"

Fucking hell. Brits are living in Gilliam's 'Brazil'

I've got my own pink receipt as well, I got stopped at the Jubilee line tube station at Canary Wharf. Apparently my backpack looked suspiciously full.

Three of them, and a dog. They'd clearly done this a lot, their routine was very well practiced. I barely even noticed when they brought the dog around to sniff me over; although one of them got jittery when I raised my arms a bit during the pat-down, and grabbed my arm. That, or he didn't want it to look like a search, not sure.

It took a little over ten minutes, including the check over the radio. During that time probably several thousand people* filed past me during the morning rush hour without seeming to raise an eyebrow.
*well, mostly bankers, but some of them qualify as people.

A woman working for TFL came by to check that the doors behind us were locked, and didn't notice the dog. She got quite a fright - apparently not very comfortable around dogs. She didn't seem so worried about the terror suspect in front of her though.

I wonder if George Orwell is looking down (or up) at us, and is laughing his ass off while saying "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Well, they got your date of birth wrong - its a good job they didn't do the old Tuttle / Buttle switcheroo...

V for vendetta was a comic book #43, This post is real life if you can call it that.

I am appalled by this, no I am very angry about this. How many terrorists have they identified in this way? I have written to my MP and put a freedom of information act request in asking about this. Others should do the same.

Soon we humans should be immortal! Just look at what pains our collective governments go to keep us safe from everything! I have even heard that they will soon be outlawing hard food to save us all from the dangers of chewing and maybe biting our tongues.

maybe throw yourself on the ground shrieking "Don't hit me!!!" at the top of your lungs?

You'll notice at the end they asked the guy to describe his ethic origin... I think part of the reason for the random stop and searches is statistics. The met needs to show that they aren't deliberately selecting people based on race, and this is an easy way to even the bias. Expecting to stumble upon a terrorist in this way, is like expecting to win the lottery; so that can't be the motivation.

The bottom line is, a police officer should not be given this kind of power. I felt the second officer dragged the proceeding out, in a pretty pathetic and childish display of authority. He shouldn't be able to. Explaining that he was looking for maps, electronic components and stolen credit cards (which might be used to fund terrorism) was laughable...

But then, the opening scene of the Bourne Ultimatum _was_ filmed along that very same stretch of Waterloo Station. Perhaps the officer was simply acting out. Bless.

This exact same thing happened to me about four-five years ago, in Trafalgar Square. The difference is I just shrugged and let them search my back- the whole thing took less than three minutes and they were very nice about it. They didn't go through my wallet or search my person, just my bag. I suspect the only reason it took 20 minutes and was ludicriously thorough with this guy is that he put up a fuss.

Not saying that it's right that Police can go through a guy's wallet- I'd have objected if they opened my wallet and starting writing down numbers- just sayin'.

Unfortunately, this is typical of the new ID-infested age into which we're heading.

I don't believe the Brown administration holds to the same ideals as, say, any extreme Germanic political parties of the 20th century, but such extensions of the curtailment of civil liberties, on the back of flimsy reasoning, are deeply worrying.

As lots of people have pointed out, searching for maps and stolen credit cards in a random person's bag (who was never, apparently, under any suspicion) is just ludicrous. How this could possibly be considered any defence against an organised and determined terrorist organisation is beyond belief.

Say they search one in every 200 people who walk past (many did while this search was being carried out). This was ostensibly a 'random screening'. There is, I'd warrant, about a 1/1,000,000 chance of 'catching a terrorist' wandering around Waterloo with maps with 'bomb target' marked on them.

Absurd, unnecessary, overextension of the state, and indicative of a paranoia that is (in part) threatening to bring down this Labour government.

Sorry, make that 1/1,000,000,000.

As an American, I'm astonished at how incredibly nice and professional these police were in executing their law. The American standard seems to involve contractors, and a minimum of property damage - and that's on a good day.

I'm going to be unpopolar for this.

"UNITED 93 MOTHERFUCKERS!" is not just for terrorists.

#67- Maybe you will be unpopular, but first you have to make an understandable statement.

By the above, I clarify, the spirit of not acquiescing to being shoved around until you die is not limited to terrorists. It encompasses everyone, in uniform or out, in dishcloth or out, in quiet or in noise.

Now that our governments and peacekeepers would hold is un thrall of terror as much as the 9/11 murderers would - UNITED 93 And No Mercy.

Sorry, I'm leaving the UK because people like this get scrubbed down, while the people who beat me unconscious and robbed me go free.

you were beaten and robbed by police?

I think he's saying that the police spend their time harassing "random" law-abiding citizens, while leaving actual criminals, such as the ones who mugged him, to do as they please.

I still love the fact that 'items useful to a terrorist' include maps and photos. Oh yes, that is the way to identify a terrorist. Or, y'know, a tourist. They do sound similar!

is England used up?

Your rights and what to expect when met with Stop and Search...

http://www.met.police.uk/stopandsearch/what_is.htm

Nothing an air traveler in the States hasn't experienced. Civil liberties and Orwell aside, it is an absurdly inefficient way to screen for people of evil intent.

I think post-9/11 security measures fall into three categories: those that might have had some effect on the events leading up to 9/11, those that people with agendas had wanted to enact for years but had been prevented by budgets or the Constitution, and those pointless, random measures taken by various authorities just so they couldn't be accused of "doing nothing different following 9/11".

For example, the security guards where I work got Smokey Bear hats after 9/11. Still no Tasers or guns, but now they do wear hats.

Dangit, #13! I wanted to be the one who posts the "Oh yeah? In the US..." comment! Maybe next time...

Does anyone ever say, "Fine, arrest me," instead of giving in?

#77 - Since watching the video I have been asking myself all evening that if I were a UK citizen, or as a Canadian visiting the UK, if I would them tell to throw the cuffs on me because I don't consent to the search. I don't have an answer yet and hope to never be put into the position of deciding.

#78 - Now this thread is getting interesting. I wonder what extra paperwork the police would have to do if we refused to be searched? They would have to make an arrest, and that would have to be documented. How much further would it go?

What I am saying is it could be worthwhile refusing these searches, en masse, as civil disobedience. It might slow the system down and clog it to the point where they can't keep justifying it.

I'm inclined to believe that, if you cheerfully asked to be arrested instead, there's a good chance that they'd back down.

How did things get this bad? Simple political opportunism. Here's proof -

"The kaleidoscope has been shaken. The pieces are in flux. Soon they will settle again. Before
they do, let us re-order this world around us."
Tony Blair, Labour conference, 2 October 2001

Yes, he really said that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3750847.stm

God I feel so insanely happy that we East Germans have been liberated from the evil Stasi Regime that was suppressing us all these years. You know its sooo much better now - I don´t even know what to do with all my freedom.

For the record. My parents were under constant surveillance in East Germany but they have never ever been body searched - ever. This shit is worse then it ever was in the former east block. I wonder when they come up with neighborhood promotions for people giving terrorism tips of their neighbors (and then in return receive favors for doing so). That is about the last thing missing - everything else has already surpassed the east german Staatssicherheit.

That sort of crap, along with this

http://tinyurl.com/66so2k

..sort, combined with NuLab's destruction of the NHS and their support for a stupid war basically drove us out of the UK. But keep 'em coming Boing Boing, it just makes me feel better for leaving.

@ #7 joelmichael
Are you guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty?

Judging from this report, it's the former...
Everyone is guilty of being a terrorist, unless you can prove that you are not, by letting your stuff be searched.

And for those of the "Well, it's okay, because I have nothing to hide" crowd, read this:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565

Although I disgree in the strongest terms with these provisions of the Terrorism Act 2000, I have to say that the officer in the video should be commended for his professionalism.

If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the government which passed this legislation.

If you want something else to be angry about, read RIPA 2000 section 49.

What a great travelogue. I think I will stay home.

If you are stopped by an officer / mall guard / etc. as a "suspect", start video taping or snapping pictures.

If the officer tries to stop your photography, say, ''If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about''.

@ #80 Antinous: You need to time it right. UK Police shifts are 6AM till 2PM, 2PM till 10PM and 10PM till 6AM. If you ask to be arrested in the last 90 minutes to 2 hours of their shift, you are going to be set merrily on your way, if you haven't been a complete arsehole. Unless your policeman has a moustache, in which case the chances of him being a complete bastard triple.

Has a terrorist, ever been caught by random stop and searches?

if the copper is picking 1 in every 20 people then a terrorist has only a 5% chance of being stopped, if they were dumb enough not to just stay on the train, wait until it went back to vauxhall and get off there.

I have been stopped and searched by London police three times during the past seven years or so. Twice using the prevention of terrorism act in the City of London (the financial district of London which happens to be my home, where I pay my rent, pay my council tax and do my shopping)!

Unfortunately the City of London police have, since the days of the IRA bombings, had a stringent stop and search policy: it used to be called "the ring of steel" but slackened off considerably until 2001, when it just became the ring of annoyance.

The first time I was observed by police officers using a cash machine ATM in what they felt was a suspicious manner. They watched me come out of the bank, followed me down the street and stopped me in a closed, private corner of a street where no-one else could see. I questioned their reasons, asking if I looked like a terrorist, and they said that because of my shifty manner at the ATM and the dyed colour of my hair they felt I could be an "anti-vivisectionist terrorist". Unless I consented to a full search they would arrest me, so weighing that one up carefully I consented to the search, which was thorough (including my wallet) and thoroughly humiliating - though of course they found nothing.

The second time I was accused of driving suspiciously - I was "looking in my rear view mirror too much" - probably because a police car was tailing me. Again I consented.

The third time was a set-up piece of theatre at an underground station where every passenger was sniffed for drugs by a dog. The mutt sat down next to me and again I consented to a search - because I knew I was not and had not been in possession of any drugs.

This isn't even mentioning the time I was unwittingly caught and coralled in Oxford Circus for hours by police trying to prevent an anti-capitalist riot.

See how all these things begin to make me look like a criminal even though in every case nothing was found against me? Let's imagine they bring in identity cards and some sort of police record of searches is attached to those cards.

While it would be impressively brave to refuse and opt for arrest instead, you would then find yourself fingerprinted and, along with everyone else arrested in the UK, added to the UK National Criminal Intelligence DNA Database.

'if the copper is picking 1 in every 20 people '
1 in every 20 that walks by them, while they're not busy engaged in a search, and while they're present in the station. 1 in every 20 people that doesn't see a bright yellow jacket and walk a bit further away.

I've been through that station often enough that if it were 1 in 20 I'd have been stopped a few times by now. I can't even recall seeing someone else stopped while I've been there.

It's crazy and pointless.

#86, very good point, but one drawback is that those who are doing something wrong get all defensive on you - see the front page of todays Metro for an example. http://img.metro.co.uk/e-edition/An673/Metro20080820/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.metro.co.uk%2Fe-metro Even the pro-fascist middle england mouthpieces can't ignore it anymore.

@91 They do that for sure. Best to say it good and loud, get a crowd around you, keep asking questions...

#18, #23: I think your problem is with the laws. The laws are fucked. Not all of them obviously, murder, rape, theft, violence all bad.

But some still are, and some that are pursued vigorously and stupidly.

So. That said, knowing the laws you'd be enforcing and still wanting to become a cop. I dunno.

I'm torn on the All Pigs Are Bastards line, and I've known a few decent blokes who were cops. They still busted people for pot and gave out frivolous tickets.

Yet another reason not to revisit a nice country.

Too bad.

England, and the GB in general, used to be a pleasnt place with pleasant people...and no millions of 'Big Brother'-ish CCTV cameras or invasive cops.

I won't be going back, ever, and that's too bad.

thanks Terence; worth reposting:

http://liberty-human-rights.org.uk/join/

Jesus. Things are crazy in the US these days, but at least we have this as a bit of a guide.

Is anyone else comforted by the fact that the US still has a lot of well armed libertarians living in the mountains ready to fight off the black helicopters?

So what have the bad guys learned from this video? Hide everything in the camera and pretend to record the entire procedure.

Yup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIDggzJ1mWc

"Sign there. Again please. There. Press harder this time. That is your receipt for your husband. Thank you. And this is my receipt, for your receipt."

This Happened to me a couple of months ago at the Plymouth train Station in Devon, while waiting for my Colleagues to arrive. My Bag was completely emptied, without suspicion, and we were made late for our appointment.

And it's happening more often. There have been swarms of police officers at increasingly Minor stations. I'm Honesty starting to get worried.

Don't worry. The Morlocks only take what they need.

That profiling isn't going on is a ridiculous notion. Commuting every day from Southwark to Kings Cross, I see the random searches in action on a regular basis and I'll be darned if there isnt' a type. I could be walking by them each day with a big meat cleaver in my case and not get a second glance. The rule is as it has been, people of a certain look and economic bracket can get away with a lot more. Is as it ever was.

Started with a song, so let's end with a song:

And did those feet in ancient time,
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the Holy Lamb of God,
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold,
Bring me my arrows of desire,
Bring me my spear: o clouds unfold,
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor will my sword sleep in my hand,
'Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green and pleasant land.

And

You can't trust the Specials like the old-time Coppers when you can't find your way home.